Lead Brightly. The Truth About Leadership & Confidence

How Purpose Changes Everything | Micah-Rose Emmett

• Paul Banks • Season 1 • Episode 1

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Leadership isn’t a straight line. And for many high-achieving women, it’s not ambition that drives the journey — it’s purpose, identity, and the courage to rebuild when life throws everything off course. In this powerful conversation, Sarah sits down with global CEO and leadership expert Micha-Rose Emmett, who opens up with remarkable honesty about losing her mum, losing her confidence, and slowly learning to rebuild belief from the ground up.

Across this deeply human and generous discussion, Micha-Rose shares how confidence is shaped, shaken, and strengthened. She reveals how reframing your inner voice changes the way you lead, why gratitude pulled her out of her darkest moments, and how stillness creates clarity in a world built on noise, comparison, and pressure.

Together, Sarah and Micha-Rose explore imposter syndrome, the loneliness at the top, the trap of 16-hour days, and the internal narratives that quietly define how we show up. This episode is a reminder that leadership isn’t about perfection — it’s about purpose, connection, and owning who you really are.

Whether you’re an emerging leader, an experienced executive, or someone trying to redefine what success looks like, this conversation brings the practical insight and emotional honesty you’ll recognise in your own journey. Micha-Rose’s three pillars of authentic leadership close the episode with clarity you can use today.

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Sarah:

Welcome to Lead Brightly, real conversations about leadership, confidence, and what it truly takes to lead with clarity, courage, and impact. I'm your host, Sarah Farmer, and I'm joined today by Micha-Rose Emmett. Micha-Rose is a global citizen devoted mother and wife, and the group CEO of an international legal consultancy. A lawyer by training and founder of Daffodils for Doris, a charity dedicated to connection led transformations for women. Micha-Rose embodies purposeful leadership. Starting out in 2012, she built a thriving global consultancy in a competitive, rapidly evolving industry. She's also a certified executive business coach, empowering women to unlock their potential and articulate their vision, guided by values of freedom, kindness, and equality. Micha-Rose is deeply committed to creating opportunities for individuals to rise, thrive, and lead with purpose. Micha-Rose, welcome to the show.

Micha-Rose:

Thank you Sarah. Really great to be here. I'm so excited to have this conversation. I think it's such an important conversation that more of us need to be discussing.

Sarah:

Yeah, brilliant. I'm gonna ask you lots about why you think that is as we go along. But the first question I have for you. When I look at what you've achieved, I'm mind blown. I've told you that already. I, think it's incredible what you've done, inspiring. What did you like back in the day before you became who you are today? What did you believe about yourself? Did you believe always that you were going to be this amazing, accomplished human being that could do what you are doing today?

Micha-Rose:

First of all, thank you so much because I don't necessarily see myself in the same light. I spend, and this is I guess my narrative. I've always spent my life just thinking about what is it that I can contribute back. and it's interesting because I've been called Ambitious, by men in particular,

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

it's quite funny because if they actually realize it wasn't coming from a place of, oh, I want to be the best, or I want to be this, or I want to be, that it actually comes from a place of really was important for me to. Do the very best I could do. That's how I was brought up. my parents, instilled a strong sense of education and a strong sense of service. And so everything we did was about being the best that you were doing. and it's been a really tough journey because, I've had a lot of incidents or happening in my life. I lost my mum when I was 23 and, she really was my north star. She was, was the person who told us we could do anything that we set our minds to, I think that was always what, drove me. but it's also about having a sense of purpose.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

so without purpose, I don't do very well.

Sarah:

So you need, that north star to say this, is where I'm going and why. And there's so much in what you just said that, I'd love to go into, but particularly what I want to just talk about is your mum. because it's, I think for the, for those of us who've achieved. we haven't always had the supportive parent, behind us. sometimes our closest can be the most damaging to us and say things that without any malice meant at all. I don't quite know why people do the things that they do, but it sounds like your mum really supported you and gave you that, that courage, which I think when you've got the family support, it really helps us to, truly believe we can do. Anything that we put our mind to. But did you actually always believe that? Did you always believe from an early day, just because I've got purpose, just because mum says I can and I could do anything? Did you believe that? Deep down

Micha-Rose:

I didn't always believe that. but when I was growing up, mum spent a lot of time with us and just

Sarah:

I.

Micha-Rose:

us, build up in our building our confidence. But. When she passed away, I lost a lot of that confidence. not to go into the details of it, but I was actually in the middle of moving to a different country and about five days before I was meant to move where she was killed in the car accident. so I'd packed up my house and, I basically was ready to move on. And then this life changing event happened it left me. empty because I'd lost North Star. I didn't have a job. I I went back home. I helped my father with the business, but I, was Lost. I didn't really know where to start and what to do. slowly I had to start building my life up by myself. And I think in that alone, I had very little confidence.

Sarah:

Yes.

Micha-Rose:

I was very nervous about what my abilities were. and that I took through with me for a long time through my career actually.

Sarah:

Wow. And the story about your mum is it's so sad, and I'm sure plenty of people watching this will have had, maybe not similar, but had experiences where they've lost loved ones at a really important time when they're about to do something, when they're about to, go into secondary school, whatever it is, and, I'm sure this will. Will resonate with a lot of people. and what I was thinking was, as you were saying that is you've had this person telling you that you are, you've, got this, you can do anything. But when that voice is gone, had that voice actually been created in your own head, it sounds like it hadn't been enough. You didn't believe it enough, but you had this narrative from someone else. Now, the reason I'm saying this is because I, didn't have that narrative. I had to create it either way. We both ended up successful, we both ended up what we, what appears to be successful. May not feel it's a hundred percent yet, but we appear to be successful. So I'm wondering, is there, are people going to be more successful if they're told they can be? I'm sure that helps. Or maybe is it better? Have to believe that on your own to start with. I know if there is an answer to that, but I just what your thoughts were.

Micha-Rose:

Yeah, I think you're right. I do a lot of, Psychology around parenting and childhood now is really about, instilling that sense of confidence through love and, gentleness and kindness. And I do think that's a strong foundation because if you feel confidence and settled and grounded in yourself, then know you'll take that into life.

Sarah:

Absolutely.

Micha-Rose:

But I think in terms of building that narrative, it's bloody hard.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

not an easy journey and it's taken me a long time and I'm not there, a hundred percent. But, there's, it's, there's the fake it till you make it. Everyone's got a, spin on it.

Sarah:

Yeah,

Micha-Rose:

you just gotta keep on trying and keep on it. It's really a bit like exercising,

Sarah:

it's though, isn't it? We forget the brain is a muscle that we can actually exercise. We assume that it's just there and it's gonna do its thing, but you are so right.

Micha-Rose:

A hundred percent. And one of the things that really got me through some of the darkest times when I, had to take a break in my career or whatever the case may be, was gratitude.

Sarah:

Okay,

Micha-Rose:

is what got me through every single day.

Sarah:

so how did you use gratitude to help you?

Micha-Rose:

you've gotta do the, they say, take the journal, write out your five things. there's some great books and resources out there that people can tap into. whether it's gratitude journaling or praying or whatever the case may be, just having that sense of coming back to yourself and just looking around and saying, things aren't that bad,

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

And trusting that process. So yeah, for me, gratitude is, huge.

Sarah:

So a conscious break in the pattern of unhelpful thinking that we can all get stuck in, stuck into. And also it can really help us, start to notice our biases, and the unhelpful thinking patterns about other people and all sorts of things.

Micha-Rose:

A hundred

Sarah:

is that.

Micha-Rose:

reframing,

Sarah:

Yeah, reframing it, stopping taking time. And one of the things that I do a lot with my clients is we look at not just building the confidence, but really understanding the biases and that sort of, warped mindset we have about how the world should be. And the only way to do that is to stop and question it. If you're never stopping to be grateful or to do something to question yourself, you never give yourself that moment to really think, we're just constantly going, aren't we? so how did you, I don't want to, dwell on, on, on your mum. It's an incredibly sad story, but I do want to think about how you use that.'cause I know you've used that. and I wanna, I'd love to hear a bit more about that. I'd love to share it with people that are listening. how have you used that horrendous time? purposefully to help others.

Micha-Rose:

So I think it was, it took a long time to rebuild that looked like myself, like my old self. And then from there, I'd had, to another country and I had a sort of lot of back and forth and this and that and career changes and.

Sarah:

Where were you moving from and to, so you were in South Africa to start with, were you?

Micha-Rose:

no, actually I'm originally from Namibia and then

Sarah:

Okay.

Micha-Rose:

pulled in South Africa, university there. Then I'd done a student in Italy, come back. Then I went to, and then I moved to the uk.

Sarah:

Okay.

Micha-Rose:

supposed to move to New York actually, but that was when my mum, I, passed away. I started a business in 2012, some other sort of investors and partners, but just before that, I'd taken a short sabbatical, between careers. you've gotta take gardening leave and I was wanting to do charity work.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

And I want to do charity work within the women empowerment space because that's something that my mother had always instilled in me. And have a strong sense of, helping women.'cause I was a woman in very interesting situations. I never had a mentor. I was on a beach in Thailand and I remember this vision coming to me of saying, nobody wants to take you on these charities. They just want your money. Why don't you start your own charity and your mother's name, where it's Este? about not giving money, but giving time being able to work with other women like yourself who you can help, give confidence and just. Be there in, in terms of a community and a support. actually how that came about. it took a few years later before we could actually establish it as a

Sarah:

yeah.

Micha-Rose:

but. It's, amazing. It's always these moments of when you've got quiet,

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

so busy on our hamster wheels, and it's when you get off that hamster wheel and you're just in nature and you're quiet, then you have these moments of clarity about what you need to be moving forward with and doing, but within a sense, with a purpose and in service.

Sarah:

I'm so with you. I don't know about you, but I can't, I cannot sit at my desk and. Think I have to be out. I need to be in the gym. I need to be walking the dog. I need to be doing absolutely anything other than trying to think. because as soon as I say, you must think about this, Sarah, and you've got to do it. My brain goes, no, thank you. I don't wanna do that.

Micha-Rose:

it.

Sarah:

Yeah, it shuts down. It's no, I don't work anymore. Now how does that happen? But it's, you've gotta have that freedom. Your brain. I talk about it as the brain's quite muddy. We've got so much going on. There's so much, there's so many million bits of information we're processing every single second of every single day that we just need to be. Not thinking so that we can think. I love that. And Thailand's a beautiful place to have a genius idea. So this is where Daffodils for Doris was born.

Micha-Rose:

correct. Yes.

Sarah:

and how is that, how is that working today then? Is that, how many people are you supporting? Because this must be very, really, really, powerful for them, but so powerful for you as well. I know when I'm coaching I find it really helpful to be coaching'cause it reminds me, of everything I teach, everything I've learned, so it makes us stronger and stronger. So although we are giving, we're also receiving at the same time, do you think?

Micha-Rose:

100%. I think coaching is so powerful. so I'd love you to chat to me about that later in the conversation, about coaching, because it was also a, big moment in my life. But, with regards to DA for Doris, we, so at the moment it's just myself, doing mentoring and I'm specifically focused on South Africa, Namibia. I've been, I've, done, some coaching courses and mentoring with women in finance, and in other sort of areas there. But I wanting to grow it out and I don't want it to be about me doing the mentoring and the coaching. I'm really looking to bring together a group of women from all around the world who can. Support each other, and there's a big picture thinking around that. But at the minute, I'm working with a team. I'm actually working with a university. To help build out the platform for Daff RIS so that we can reach more women. Let me just to give a little bit more insight into what we planning to do. It's quite niche. So it's for, women coming from emerging developing economies, professional women over the age of 18, up to the age of 45, young group who are already. In some way, leaders or business owners or professionals in their community,

Sarah:

Right.

Micha-Rose:

they're just having these stumbling blocks. And I think a little bit around the work you do, that imposter syndrome,

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

a lot of that is driven by that, where they just need that support and help to get to the next level so they can empower their communities. And that's the vision of what I'd like to do. So

Sarah:

Hello.

Micha-Rose:

I'm looking to build that up. so I'm quite excited'cause I think next year's gonna be a good year for us.

Sarah:

it sounds fabulous and absolutely I would, we've talked about this before, but I'd be very, happy to help with that. So you mentioned, imposter syndrome. have there been times, so the first question I asked you as around, was there a time when you didn't fully believe, and you've talked about that, the episode with your mum and when suddenly everything falls apart. When you think back to that time, can you remember the narrative that made you feel that you were less capable? Was there a particular thing you were saying to yourself or a particular thing you were feeling or believing about yourself? Because. what a lot of people don't realize is a lot of this is happening unconsciously all of the time. and, that negative narrative or that churning feeling or that belief, I'm not good enough is happening without us, without our full consent. so did you notice that? Were you aware and could you remember what that either the thinking, the feeling, or the believing was maybe all three.

Micha-Rose:

So there are two words that come to mind. Lonely and lost, and. I think that is often the starting point for a lot of people where they don't have someone to talk to. and this is why coaching is so powerful because that really provides this foundation for you to be able to share in a safe space. and I think the way that the world is set up nowadays, we are lonelier. we don't have communities anymore.

Sarah:

No.

Micha-Rose:

Especially in big cities, we're single units moving around. And, another reason why daff for Doris is so important because I wanna bring that sense of community back. I think for me, imposter syndrome was very much about having a sense of not belonging. so just feel so lost and lonely and not connected. And as soon as we're not connected, yeah,

Sarah:

We are lost, aren't we? Sorry to interrupt you. I was just thinking about the re when we think about psychological safety, one of the, one of the five human psychological needs is relatedness our, ability to feel like we're part of something bigger. So you suddenly felt a drift. you, weren't, but you'd lost a massive support and connection in your life and you felt a drift. And it's really interesting. I do a lot of work or, talking to people who have been outta work have had a really bad experience. even simple things. I say simple. Having had two myself, giving birth, having children, taking time out to be a mum for a while, all of these things that, that suddenly change our. Our traject trajectory of what we're doing, even if it's for a short amount of time, we suddenly feel disconnected to what we were before. And it has a real impact on our ability to feel grounded, have clarity, feel confidence. and I think for a lot of people, they, say, and I've done it myself, is, I should just pull myself together. this happens to people all the time. people must pull themselves together, but it's not. That easy is it to do that?

Micha-Rose:

Not, and I think we've, again, I go back to this sort of sense of we live in these big cities and single units. back in the day when maybe as far back as hunter and gatherers, but I think the point I'm trying to make is that, as human beings, we need that connection.

Sarah:

Yeah, absolutely.

Micha-Rose:

so we, don't need to just pull ourselves together because, all that's gonna happen is it's just going to next time, something's gonna happen. And that, microbe, stress is going to get bigger and bigger until we. Are unhealthy or we have some other, moments in our lives where it completely breaks down.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

we do need to change our thinking

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

as human beings of how we approach all moments in our lives.

Sarah:

Absolutely. and to accept that, I think today, and I don't want to sound like oh, children of today and we're, we're, all so different for us, but I think they have it really tough, really, tough. Now, kids of today, I think they are, the expectation on them is so much more, they're visually stimulated constantly by perfection and on what is meant to be the world that they're living in. And it's just all fake. And they've got this constant nagging doubt that I'm not good enough. I'm not pretty enough, I'm not thin enough, I'm not fat enough. I'm not taught whatever it is. I just think it's horrendous for them. it was bad enough for us. but I think it's even worse now. But the way round it is still the same, isn't it? It's still taking time out. It's still understanding who you are. It's breaking the bias thinking, but I think it's harder, for them than it is for, adults. But we are still, we're not immune to it either because we are also in this 24 7 barrage of information. be on LinkedIn seven times a day, make sure you've got your Instagram feed sorted. You'll never do business if you don't buy this marketing tool. It's oh my God. I've been a victim of all of that in the first few years of my, business. and has it affected you too? Have you been, have you feel that partly what's going on in the world stops us from feeling like we're ever good enough?

Micha-Rose:

100%. you just have to open Facebook or Instagram or even LinkedIn, whatever the platform is. And there's this constant, as you say, barrage of imagery and stimulus and, the pressure is so great and I think with our children, the only way to maybe work through it is to have an open relationship where there's communication because there's no way to stop it. and there's no way to stop it for us either.'cause we have to be on these platforms in order to promote ourselves and promote our businesses and whatever the case may be. But, the issue is that there's so little authentic. Self showing up in these spaces, and there're probably only a few, who I follow where I feel, you really are showing up as who you are

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

refreshing.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

but the stress of that is, is too much.

Sarah:

It's.

Micha-Rose:

I, just do digital detoxes every now and again because it's just no point in stressing oneself out even more.

Sarah:

Exactly. One thing I did do a long time ago is I took Facebook and LinkedIn, which are my two downfalls off my iPad, which is the only thing that comes into the room at night. So sometimes I'm tempted to reload it, but I'm like, no, and I've probably been without it at night now for about three years, and it changed how I slept. Because now I read at night instead of looking at, I think, oh, just check that. One thing I've still gotten there is emails, but I have stopped myself looking at those as well because what if something comes in at 11 o'clock at night and you're like, oh, I didn't do the thing, and then you're off again. But yeah, so we have more control than we care to believe a lot of the time, and I don't think. I know my children who are 19 and 17, they don't believe that yet, which is annoying'cause this is what I do for a living. You think like I could convince anybody I lived with 24 7, but they don't quite believe that yet. But we do have more control. and, going back to daffodils for Doris, to me it sounds like this was one way of using your experience, the very distressing, upsetting experience of losing your mum, combining it with your passion for purpose. And helping others and creating a space where everybody, especially women, can thrive, has been a really empowering thing for you as it will be for other people. and I'm wondering, when you, when we look back at everything that you've been through, your confidence has, obviously it's been up, it's been down. And I totally understand why it dropped when, you lost your mum, where would you say your confidence level is right now? are you at a level now where every day you wake up and think, I've got not, over egotistical. I don't mean that. I'm just, are you a level where you are, what I describe as you topic, where every day, most of the time you wake up and think, I've got this, or if I haven't, I know how to calm myself down to get it.

Micha-Rose:

So out of 10, I'd probably say a seven. I think there's a lot of space to, to work on that. I'm in a very competitive environment all the time. and I don't only mean in the workspace, the school space, the, all the spaces, and you constantly, oh, I constantly feel like, I've gotta show up for all these moments and all these people. And

Sarah:

talk about showing up, are you talking about showing up perfectly? Like I, I've got, yes, I'm the best mother, I'm the best at this. I've got a wonderful company. Everything's sorted. I don't wanna interrupt you, but I do. It's like, why, and, the coach comes into me then, is why do you, feel the need to show up like that?

Micha-Rose:

So there's obviously the internal, sort of conversation narrative of, you, you need to, be better, improve yourself. You, push yourself harder.

Sarah:

this comes from childhood. Yes. The, constant, I support you, but you've gotta work hard. Yeah. Okay.

Micha-Rose:

that's how you succeed by working hard.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

and I saw my parents do that, particularly my, father who 15 hour days. So that's the work ethic that And, I followed that for so many years of my life. then I think also, going back to the social media, there's so much pressure out there you've just gotta find the balance. So some days it's quite hard, in central London, there's so much stimulus. we moved, back to London. About two and a half years ago, we were living in Namibia and it was so different because it's such a quiet, Nobody cared what you were wearing, nobody cared what your hair looked like. And it was bliss Actually, when I think back now, because, It forces you to look at who you are and it forces you to say, okay, I need to look inside.'cause it doesn't really matter what's on the outside, no one else is bothering,

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

who are you? that was a

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

important, moment for me, even in terms of my leadership when I came back the business, because I came back with that in mind and it was game changing.

Sarah:

so that point in time you had a refresh, a reboot, a detox, and then you could come back in all guns blazing. and I know it's not been an easy ride, even, with that mindset and it's, interesting that you say you're about a seven out of 10 now. what is it that you think contributes? I know there's a social media aspect and everything else, but I'm thinking about on a daily basis when you are at work. What contributes to that not being more, and I think seven outta 10 is great, by the way. I think most people would be delighted at that. But what if it could be eight? What if it could be nine? What, rather than what's missing? What would, need to happen for that to be possible?

Micha-Rose:

it's a great question and Maybe if I had a better answer, I'd probably be edging on an eight. But, a, couple of things that I've learned this year and, have helped me is, a few health issues actually. more sleep, not having to work 16 hours a day. being able to calm the nervous system down so that you can show up, not overconfident or over in charge, but you can just show up in your natural energy. And that's been a game changer for me. and, it's, it takes work.'cause you've gotta. You've gotta find what's right for you, whether it's breathing, exercise or whatever the, or sleep, whatever the case may be. But, I think in your book you talk about, being overconfident and that's still can be imposter syndrome.

Sarah:

Yeah, absolutely.

Micha-Rose:

that balance, of just through it and, everything's gonna be okay. I'm not a heart surgeon. I'm not saving people's lives on that level,

Sarah:

it's such a good point though. Often I, do this to myself as get a grip, Sarah. you are alright. You are helping people be more successful, more confident. Maybe they'll earn more money, maybe they'll be happier. Some people's lives do actually get change When we think about the serious impacts of imposter syndrome,'cause a lot of people don't understand how much it can affect your health. But you're right. When we are not on the edge, we are not surgeons on the edge to quote a television program from the uk. we're not, dealing with people that are literally falling off a cliff and there's nothing to bring them back. And having that sense of reality is so important. It doesn't mean what we're doing isn't important. We've got to stop thinking it's the be all and end all. And I often say to people that, what happens out of work is real life. And what happens in work helps you have that real life. Enjoy it as much as you can. be as successful as you want to be. Make the most of it. Manage your mind, enjoy it. But remember, it's the reality is we are working because. We need to work to live. And if we can help people along the way and we have purpose, it makes it much more enjoyable for us. But let's not get too carried away and think that we are, heart surgeons and it's all the heart surgeons isn't to this. You've got a serious job. You are heart surgeons or

Micha-Rose:

Exactly,

Sarah:

or something like that.

Micha-Rose:

we, love you. We are grateful for that,

Sarah:

yeah, absolutely. Don't stop. Don't stop.

Micha-Rose:

So stop. But at the same time, you're absolutely right. it also, it just resets the narrative, because I, was working 16 hours a

Sarah:

Yeah,

Micha-Rose:

and not necessarily productively, it was, to keep on moving. I had to keep on pushing. I had to, on, what I do and do it better, and I wasn't,

Sarah:

Perfectionist is coming in there then. Yeah. And do you find that when, you are, in that state, and this is, often a state that, that people don't realize they're in, is they're pushing towards burnout. because you are overdoing it. You've got the constant narrative going that isn't quite good enough. Do a bit more, and I catch myself doing this as well, just do some work on a Sunday. Do this on a Saturday. it catches you off guard completely, doesn't it? But. It does make us less effective. So one of the things you've just picked up there, which is really important, is this perfectionism piece. Some people suffer from procrastination, which is, I, can't start, I can't start me when I sit here and go, You have to think of a solution. I can't.

Micha-Rose:

Yeah, I have that too.

Sarah:

Masters in them both. but actually knowing that you are doing it is really important. And that's, again, often we don't have the self-awareness to know that we're doing it. Knowing that we're doing it helps and then we can make more active choices to not do it. But what you are saying then is, and I'm sure people will absolutely understand this, is you become less effective because you are not really in control of what you are doing. Your brain's a bit muddy. you're not seeing the bottom clearly at all. So you're reworking, redoing things. Now, when that happens, how does that make you feel? Because you know you're doing it as well, so how does it make you feel?

Micha-Rose:

So I don't do that anymore. And the reason I don't is because I have a young child and that turned my life upside down and suddenly I cannot work 16 hour

Sarah:

Yeah,

Micha-Rose:

can't work on weekends as much as I try, I can't because I. Also very committed to being the best mum I can be. That's very important for me. And so what I realized was that I could actually do the same amount of work focused without procrastinating, without being a perfectionist in less time. And also it, helped me to delegate more because I wouldn't delegate.

Sarah:

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So when you had, when you are you are held to the fire, you've had a child, you cannot do that anymore. And I know lots of, women and, lots of, sorry. Men and women who are parents don't find that balance. I know I found it really hard. but when you're held to the fire, to the flame, you suddenly realize, actually I can delegate if I've got to or I'm going to. Yeah. Now a lot of people don't get to that point. They're still trying to juggle everything. so they're still in those muddy waters, and then you end up feeling like you're not really good at anything. But what I'm, hearing from you is, yeah, you are able to, be more effective. Now you know what you are doing, but it also can help you be. The bemummom you can be. And I love the way you say that, rather than be the best mum, because that's impossible. and be really good and really successful in your career as well. So you, it sounds like you found that balance through self-awareness, emotional self-control, the right level of confidence. And you were talking about, I can't remember the words you just described, but, or, showing up authentically. And just being okay with that. This, to me is the essence of leading brightly. this is how I would describe it. and that must feel, if you think about how it used to feel when you were doing the 16, nowadays that must feel different. How does it feel? It's not perfect, I get that. But to be more in control, more empowered, more able to delegate, more able to show up authentically. How does that feel?

Micha-Rose:

It's, oh, it's a real relief actually because the having to show up in the old Micha and showing up in the new Micah has also, had an effect on how people react to me. it's actually been quite interesting to see, the result. And if I think about now, I just feel so much better about myself because I'm not trying to, I'm just not trying to keep up anymore. I'm going at my own pace.

Sarah:

Yeah, this, takes me back to the talk I saw you do when you talked about the ladders.

Micha-Rose:

Yes.

Sarah:

I want to go into those ladders in a minute, but the feeling I can see it, I can feel it coming off you and I know it because I've been there. The relief is real. Yeah. You suddenly it is like a weights lifted off you. and I do wanna talk about the ladders because that's, it's a really, it's a, it was such a brilliant picture you painted of how it used to feel, to how it feels now. And when we've done that, I just want to check in with you about the, how others perceive you. Because one of the other things that people don't realize is when they are, running themselves from a level of low confidence, low self-belief, low self-awareness, low emotional self-control, they don't realize the ripple effect that has on other people. And I talk about becoming a magnet for success. You can't until you feel magnetic, which is. and I'm not saying it has to be a hundred percent of the time, just more of the time. So first of all, tell us about the ladders. Just share that with people who are listening, what you talked about on stage and how different that is now.

Micha-Rose:

So I found this brilliant quote and it's, quote is basically, There aren't enough women. the further you climb up a ladder, the fewer women you find, and that's because most women, climbing the wrong ladder, against the wrong wall.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

it really resonated with me because, I'm constantly in my career being in, male dominated industries and I've just been climbing. Up the wrong ladder all the time.'cause I was going after something that felt like that's what I need to achieve. That's the career path I need to take. That's who I need to be successful. And then you suddenly realize, wait, hold on. I don't need to be there because telling me to be there? Society, myself, my parents, my friends, and. You start aligning yourself with people that align with your values. And that was more important to me than being successful or, having the new newest Louis Vuitton bag or driving the biggest car because none of that really means anything. What really is important is that when I come home and I connect with my husband, I connect with my son, I connect with my community. And so that sort of changed everything for me and it really, made me realize about, going back to the ladders, And particularly where I grew up and we grew up in a society where, you had to go and study to be a lawyer or a doctor, and that would define success. and actually, that, that is necessary, the right ladder. The right ladder could be art school, it could be, going and studying engineering, whatever the case may

Sarah:

Whatever. It's, yeah. Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

Exactly. And the way the world is changing, we've gotta teach our kids as well and society that it's okay to choose the ladder that you fit on because then it won't be wobbly. You'll get to the top, you can do it at your own pace. and you just feel more grounded because who wants to be on a wobbly ladder? You know you're gonna fall

Sarah:

Yeah. Yeah. I, love, this. I've got such a, vision in my head and it, what screams to me about this is that one. And this is about going back to how we started this conversation about, your mum giving you real, confidence to, to do what you want to do, you can achieve anything. And then we moved on to, generally we need to be really supportive parents. I think it does matter. it's, yes, some of us can fight through, I'm not saying my parents were unsupportive, but there was a, lot of issues and I. I didn't get the support necessarily that other people had or the encouragement not from both of them. so we can still become successful either way, but if we could help kids today or young people or young professionals realize what you are saying here is the right ladder is one that you've chosen for the right reasons, so the right purpose. what, where you are able to demonstrate the right behaviors authentically. And know what's gonna happen to you when you get there and really want that. That has got, and it might change as well, you might get on that ladder and go, actually, I'm halfway up it, I've decided it's the wrong one. You are okay to move, but that's okay because you've got the choice. But the, we are being we feel so boxed in, don't we to be, if you're going to be a lawyer, you must have the fancy car. You must have this, you must have that. The big house, yada. That's all lovely if you can have it. But it isn't what gives you joy. It isn't what. It isn't what makes you get up in the morning. actually it might be for some people, and you know what, if it's, that's.

Micha-Rose:

That's okay too. Absolutely. But it shouldn't have to define everyone. And I think that was the biggest, the biggest hurdle for me my entire life was the sense of belonging. because we tend to put people in boxes. you're a, woman, you're. South African or Namibian or whatever the case may be. a lawyer, now I've got the, label of mother, whatever, all these labels. But actually what if. I just didn't wanna be any of those on any particular day. Maybe I just wanted to be, a joyful, happy person who wanted to watch the sunset. My point is that I think my whole life, I've tried to pigeonhole myself and I've just never been able to fit into what one particular, criteria

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

of me.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

now I'm just like, this is who I am. I, I'm halfway through my life, I'm not gonna

Sarah:

Not gonna change. Now I'm with you on that.

Micha-Rose:

and I've tried so hard, I've given so much of my life trying, to be better, to be the best, to be the best friend, to be the best this, to be the, and actually, Sarah, it's exhausting.

Sarah:

you're expending so much energy trying. there's nothing wrong with wanting to be your best self and to keep growing in a growth mindset. That isn't what, I don't think that's what you are saying at all.

Micha-Rose:

a hundred

Sarah:

It's just about when you are trying to, it's like square peg, round hole. I've got to put this peg in here and it doesn't fit all the time, but. when we grow up, we start to realize that actually we're all right.

Micha-Rose:

Absolutely.

Sarah:

One of the biggest turning points for me, and it does get wobbled occasionally, is, is when I realize I wasn't a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm actually a good person. I might do things in weird ways, and it may not be to everyone's, liking or everyone's cup of tea, but that's okay too. I don't have to be a people pleaser. I don't have to be everyone's best friend. And that was Oh, the release,

Micha-Rose:

Yes. That's huge. huge. The whole people pleasing thing. I was going to bring that up. and as well, because I think we spent so much of our, or I, did spend so much of my life trying to people please and make sure everyone liked me. And actually no one, not everyone's gonna

Sarah:

no, and that's okay.

Micha-Rose:

Whatever reason,

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

that's okay. But boy oh boy, it's a long journey too

Sarah:

Yeah. And do you find, we, we, me, I mentioned earlier when I said I wanna talk to you about the ladder. I just wanted to talk to you about how people, respond to you. Is the more, actually, rather than telling you what I've seen, let me ask you first, what, have you noticed about how people respond to you? What is the biggest difference now that you have stepped into your confidence, your clarity, your purpose, your authentic self? More of the time. What is the biggest difference you've seen in how you are treated or how people respond to you?

Micha-Rose:

So I think by being, more centered in myself, I find the way that people react tends to be, They tend to gravitate more. And

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

if, because also I exude happiness, more kindness, more gentleness, because when you're stressed out and you're running and you're working 16 hours a day, you can be quite abrupt

Sarah:

Oh yeah, Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

by just changing that, people, we just all want to. bit of kindness, and that's a really big value in our home, is that kindness. Because, and I think that's what resonates with people is just good morning to the guy who's cleaning the street. good morning to the taxi driver.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

things, but they make such a huge difference. So in terms of resonating back, I think people just resonate with that.

Sarah:

Yeah, I, absolutely, I, completely see that. you have a warmth about you. when I first met you and I saw you on stage, I knew I, I wanted to speak to you. I just, you have that about you, you draw people in. and I have to say, I, I've noticed the same thing now. I'm not as gentle. I've been described as, one of my clients says she's not a blunt instrument. I'm very. I'm very forthright in what I do, but that's okay too because it's done authentically. It's done kindly. and I've developed a huge amount of understanding around empathy and understanding what o other people need so they can hear it. So how I deliver it has changed, not necessarily what I deliver. and as, a coach, your job isn't to be, The kindest all the time. your job actually is to show what you are seeing, which may not always sound so kind, but how you say it matters.

Micha-Rose:

Absolutely.

Sarah:

we've covered an awful lot today. and just to bring it all together, you've, you started off strong, you've had that wobble, you've had time out, you've had your sabbatical, you've built yourself up. You've, as you've grown up, you've developed this much stronger sense of self, who you are leading with authenticity and clarity and the confidence people are responding more respectfully, but also more. There's just more joy coming backwards and forwards, which actually then spurs us on again, doesn't it? The more we, the more I'm like you. When you walk down the street and someone, whoever it is, you say, good morning, you look great today, or something like that. The smile you get back gives you that buzz. if we could all just do a little bit more of that, but the problem is for leaders of today, it's go. numbers, numbers, and they're not all lucky enough to have a leader like you at the top. Who knows? It's about people. Than the business because you can't have the business without the people. So what would, to bring this all together, what would you recommend? maybe one thing or maybe it's some advice you've had to help you get here, that leaders of today who are, or leaders of tomorrow who are watching this and thinking about becoming leaders. How do they. How do they keep a sense of self? How do you, what's the best way to be authentic, even in an environment that appears not to care about people? Only about numbers. Only about pace, only about deals. What would you, I know it's a big ask, but would you, what would you suggest?

Micha-Rose:

So first of all, I don't think you can think to be authentic. I think you've. Has gotta be it. And I we start being more and thinking less. We show up, in a better space. I think having a purpose, really understanding on and articulating the why, because, without purpose, your team won't know why they're there, what they're, Nothing else, And in all the moments of failure as a leader of, as a, as and a business owner, will say the one thing is I've always instilled that sense of purpose and it, really holds people. I think the next thing is accountability. up. whatever, however you lead, know that people will follow that. So if you are going to say, everybody's gotta be in the office Monday to Friday, you've gotta be in the office Monday to Friday because you lead by example.

Sarah:

Okay. Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

That's really important, that accountability. And then the third is to. people with you, so grow people. I didn't do that in the first part of my business, and I really regret that because I had this incredible team who followed me because I had this purpose and I was so passionate, but I thought I had to carry everything on my own shoulders. So I carried all of it

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

and instead of bring my team with me. Who, I have a couple of people, who have since then left and started their own businesses and I'm so incredibly proud of them because, they're just awesome human beings who've done so well.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

I'd wish I'd learned that earlier. So those are those three, the three things.

Sarah:

And, yeah, I love those, that this just absolutely spot on. And this thing about when we think about you've got A vision takes you only so far. And, I talk about, with the six leadership styles out there, most people use one or two, and one of the ones that. Is least used and most powerful other than visionary is the coaching style of leadership. and when you're starting something new and you're full of passion and full of vision, we forget to take people with us, to coach them, to develop them, and they need that too. But it does start with a vision. And I am still shocked when I go into organizations. They say, you want me to do some development? I want you to do some training on these people. Tell me how it will help you achieve. And what is it? And it's like this, oh, we just wanna hit this percentage, EBIT da. I'm like, no, That's, not vision. That isn't gonna inspire people. Then you get, oh, we, we are just a X So we don't need a vision. We are not just an anything. If you want me to get outta bed and work for you, gimme a reason. One of, one of the, one of the classic cases of that was I was working with some people in the, in the police and they were in the support departments of the police and they'd be made to feel that they were nothing'cause they weren't police men or women or detectives. And after the work we did with them, they started to feel real pride in what they did because they wanted to get up and be able to lead their team and say, we matter. That's what you're talking about. If we don't feel we matter, if we don't feel what we're doing makes any difference. We are just gonna be pressing buttons, nodding heads. And I appreciate there are some roles and some jobs that are like that, and there has to be, and some people want that and that is fine. But when we're running a business, running a team, we've gotta look at everybody around us, haven't we, and lead differently depending on who's there. Micah Rose, you have been incredible, honest, open. I've really enjoyed talking to you. I could talk to you for hours, but I know you have a job to do, so you better go and do that. But I just wanna say thank you so much for joining me today. Is there any final thing that, any comment that you would like to add, anything you feel we haven't covered that you wanna leave the listeners or the viewers of this with that will help them develop their own skills to lead brightly. I know you've given us a bit, the three things. Is there anything else that comes to mind now that you would like to leave them with?

Micha-Rose:

So I think there are two things. One is I'd like to leave with a quote,

Sarah:

Okay.

Micha-Rose:

the other is, I will. Want to reinforce the messaging of how important having a coach is,

Sarah:

Okay.

Micha-Rose:

the reason is exactly. So that's why, but that sense of, because it, just helps people bring that sense of awareness and when you have the awareness, you can be more open to understanding maybe how you could do things differently

Sarah:

Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

for yourself and for those around you.

Sarah:

it gives you that protected time, doesn't it? That's the thing that I, that's missing. How do we stop and think if we don't have a protected time?

Micha-Rose:

Precisely. would re, I really advocate for that because it was life changing for me in terms of my, specifically in terms of my leadership and my

Sarah:

Okay. Yeah.

Micha-Rose:

and then I want to leave with a quote from Nelson Mandela because I think it's really, relevant to your podcast and it's our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. And when I first read that, I had goosebumps because so many of

Sarah:

just given me give and I can see that makes me quite emotional as well.

Micha-Rose:

yeah.

Sarah:

that. Wow. Thank you. I'm going to take that, I'm gonna put it right on the board in front of me because how true is that? How true is that? And I think the one thing that stops us, many of us from being brave enough to look inside here and see what's going on, is because there's a fear of what could I actually do rather than what couldn't I actually do? They're both there, me, but.

Micha-Rose:

percent.

Sarah:

Way to end. Thank you so, much. And I would love you to come back, maybe on season two, maybe on season three, whenever you can make time

Micha-Rose:

thank you for inviting me. I really loved the talk. Thank you.

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Sarah Farmer

Host